Saturday, August 6, 2011

Rant of the Week

When I was young....I really had no audible opinions. I did have my beliefs, but I never voiced them. Maybe I was too shy or maybe like a lot of people, I didn't want to make waves or be looked at funny if my opinion was "different" than someone elses. As I have gotten older though, I realized that there are times in your life that it becomes all about the "put up shut up". You simply have to take a stand from time to time....yes....even if others look at you funny!

I usually like to keep things fairly uncontroversial on here, but every once in awhile I get riled and have to pull out the old soap box and speak my mind. Apparently I don't do it enough as one reader told me I was too middle of the road and needed to have a little more fire in my belly when I wrote my blog. Hmmm.....well.....I  guess then, that it is a good thing I have decided to make Saturday's My Rant of the Week! Now before I begin...let me put a little disclaimer here. My opinions are just that.....my opinions. And well it should be....as this is my blog. I am in no way saying that I am always right (although it is pretty much a given that I am) nor that there aren't different sides and views to an issue. I am not asking you to agree with me......but I am asking you to respect my right to have my beliefs and to express them on my blog. In turn, I give you  the right to respectfully comment on and express your own beliefs here too. The way I see it....it is a win/win situation when more than one opinion can be expressed and read. And who knows.....maybe someone might learn something in the process. So here we got with My Rant of the Week!

I am sure you have heard the expression Go hard or go home. Well I might as well jump into this and go hard! A friend and I were discussing politics the other day and our governments current economic failures. Planned Parenthoods defunding was discussed which lead us into abortion. Ahhhh abortion....the hot button of all hot buttons since 1973. I used to speak up and out about abortion all the time. I prayed in front of clinics, talked to several young girls contemplating abortions and agonized with a few friends who had abortions and then realized they couldn't take the action back. I have debated abortion more times than I can even remember and in most cases...the person I debated blew up and walked away. Few who I have debated with opposing views on the subject have ever stayed around to consider facts from both sides instead of just the facts they "choose" to listen to and want to believe. The ones that have stayed....I have an abundant respect for.

I was told one time by someone who was extremely pro-choice that I seemed like such an intelligent person....so they were baffled that I could be pro-life, which in their opinion was so unintelligent. I laughed and said....You know, I was just thinking the same thing about you. The conversation ended there, with the woman literally stomping away in a huff. My thought then and there was....if you think your pro-choice views are correct, then stand there and back them up...don't try to insult me and then walk away angry because it failed. I am always willing to stay and debate, why? For one simple reason.....No one human's choice should ever trump another human's life! It is just that simple. Life should always come before choice!

Since Roe v. Wade in 1973, the best estimate is that 50 million human lives have been destroyed due to abortion. This is a very conservative estimate due to the fact that many abortions are never reported and the "destroyed" does not count the families that have fallen apart due to abortions, the relationships and marriages that have been damaged because of it and both the mental and physical damage that has been done to women who have had abortions. If all these are factored in....the number of life's destroyed sky rockets and we wonder why society is the way it is today?!

In my opinion....we live in a very damaged world and I do blame a lot of who we are as a country on certain moral stances that we no longer see as valid....not the least of which is abortion. Human life is a gift and should be protected and respected from conception to natural death. Before 1973....the country as a whole had more of a moral compass than after that landmark decision. When we stopped respecting the most innocent and fragile of human lives....we started disrespecting all human life. Abuse both child and spousal, rapes and murders have sky rocketed since 1973. Human life is now expendable. Life is no longer sacred and I do believe the legalization of abortion helped to push the country into the a moral place it has become. We are desensitized to the fact that women "choose" daily to destroy human life because of inconvenience, fear, selfishness, etc....but we will go crazy if an animal is harmed or a tree cut down. It is okay to "choose" to kill a defenseless human life but it is not okay to wear fur. What is wrong with this picture? People will shun someone who ties a dog up in their yard, but will fully support a woman's right to "choose" death for her unborn child? How does this make sense? It makes sense because this is who we are as a country. We are selfish, we are narcissistic and most of all we have lost all touch with right and wrong in respect to human life. By the way, before anyone twists my words...I do not support animal cruelty in any fashion, but I do believe that although animals on the whole are better than a lot of people I have had the pleasure to know.....I still think human life trumps animal life in the big scheme of things. We should be putting as much if not more emphasis on saving the baby humans, than we do on the baby seals.

I know that there are a million pro-choice arguments about abortion....mothers health, rape, financial issues, age, family situation....I have literally heard them all. I also know that mother's health and rape are usually less than 1% of the reason women have abortions. I know that if you are pro-choice and really good at debating the subject....you can come up with heart wrenching and socially acceptable reasons why abortion is not only a want in this country but a "need." But what about these reasons are morally acceptable? As I have said....I have heard it all. But what is boils down to is....there is always an alternative. There is adoption! The adoption waiting lists are years long and for someone who finds themselves pregnant and unable to take care of their child....adoption is a wonderful choice. And I have also heard many times...well what about the mothers mental state having to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term? Well what about her mental state when her actions have no consequences and so she goes out and gets pregnant yet again...only to repeat the cycle? What about her mental state when somewhere down the line she realizes that abortion is an act you can't take back? What about when she realizes that her choice cost her child his/her life? Are we worried about her mental state then....or just when she is carrying that "unwanted" baby?

And for those of you who prefer the term fetus.....because it gives a mental picture of more of a blob than a human life.....I respectfully say bull $&!#. Zygote, fetus, newborn, toddler, teenager, adult....they are all stages of human life that everyone goes through. You are no less a human being as a zygote than you are as an adult. The only difference is that as a zygote/fetus you have no right to life.

I could literally go on about abortion for days, but I won't. I think you understand now though....where I stand on the subject. I will however give you a quick tutorial on being pro-life. Pro-life does not mean I am some political/religious fringe nutcase who is standing around waiting to blow up an abortion clinic. It does not mean I think all abortion doctors and staff should die at all costs. It does not mean that I think all women who have abortions are going to hell. It also does not mean that I am an anti-abort. There is a difference between anti-aborts and pro-lifers. Anti-aborts are the radical fringe who do blow up clinics, kill staff and think all women are going to hell who have abortions. They see the fight as an eye for an eye and don't respect human life anymore than those who support abortion do.

I am pro-life. I believe in protecting and respecting all human life from the moment of conception to natural death. To me being pro-life goes beyond abortion. It means if a woman chooses life over abortion and needs help with that choice....I need to be there to help support her and her child. It means helping not just the unborn, but any human life in need, from going to the store for the elderly lady who can no longer drive, to watching the little boy down the street whose mother is having surgery. It means being a good friend and a good neighbor. It means taking a stand against abuse and discrimination, bullying and hate. It means treating others the way I myself would like to be treated. Being pro-life is all of those things and more. So the next time you decide to call me a woman hater or spit on me because I "choose" life, remember....I am a woman....and your mother chose life too!

So there is my rant! Do you agree? Disagree? Feel free to comment away. Oh...and don't forget to have a great Saturday!


26 comments:

Norm said...

Hi Lisa: You had me at 'no choice should trump a life...' Truth is, when I was younger I was 'on the fence' about this issue. I wasn't a woman and couldn't really comprehend that decision. I've fallen off the fence many years ago and you didn't really have me at 'no choice trumps life' I was already in the yard.

A word about writing in general and your preamble. While you may want folks to understand you, like you, etc, there really is no need to explain your opinions. They really are your's and decent folks 'get it'. That is different from when you explain you're not a kook later in your rant. I'm glad you went there because so many folks try to marginalize their "opponent" with name calling or other disgraceful tactics.

I think you did a good job. I look forward to your future rants and I think as you gain more confidence in your writing many more folks will tune in on Saturdays.

Thiry said...

I have a hard time understanding how people can get so mad at other people on certain topics like abortion, religion, politics...there is no way with all the millions of people in the world that we will all agree on any given topic...if only people could accept that they may or may not be right..as we can never be right all the time...even though there are people who think they are and then act as though everyone else is an idiot because they do not agree..and going so far as to scream at someone, call them names and possibly killing someone as we saw with Tiller, is in my opinion crazy, all of it, just speak your mind and go on...enjoyed you blog

Anonymous said...

I am shocked. She writes a blog like this and the only comments are an "atta girl" and a "why can't we all just agree to disagree and get along." She has basically said that something that is a law and which doctors have lost their lives over is wrong. How is it wrong to keep a 9 year old girl from having to go through a pregnancy after she is raped. How is it wrong to keep a mother whose life is in danger if she carries her fetus full term from dying. Millions of women need abortions and if they are made illegal then we will be back to back alley abortions where women's lives are at risk because they can't get legally what they need. There is no middle ground here and cmom is wrong. She is dead wrong. A fetus does not trump a healthy woman's life. A fetus is nothing more than a want to be human until it is born and then and only then does it's life "equal" and not trump it's mothers. And pro-lifers and pro-aborts are the exact same thing. You put lipstick on a pig and it is still a pig. I too thought you might be a little more intelligent than this garbage. And shame on you commenters for not having more balls than to kiss her ass in such a way. I am disgusted!

Cmom said...

Anonymous...you chose the two cases where the perceptual need for abortion is 1% or less. I find that interesting. What about the other reasons? The selfish ones where they are simply caught in a bad situation and just want the "easiest, quickest" way out? Abortion stops being a need there and becomes a want. And that is where a woman's wants trump a life. You can say what you like, but in any other situation...this would make no sense. A woman wants out of a marriage....so it is okay to kill that which stands in her way....her husband. A woman wants her teenager to quit talking back. He doesn't....so she kills him. Again...want trumps life. Your logic is simply illogical.
And as for my commenters...all respectful opinions are welcome here. Being disgusted because someone disagrees with you is ummm....interesting. If you are like the rest of us...then you must spend a lot of time disguested!

Anonymous said...

To bad that some people have to be such nasty people, If you don't like the blog stop reading it. no one is forcing you to. we all are entitled to our own opinions and as was clearly stated in the beginning these are her own OPINIONS and don't have to be yours.

Marni said...

Anonymous....did you just glance over the blog and just noticed where LIsa stands on this issue then started the verbal slap?
I may be incorrect but I believe that LIsa was stating her opinions. And also in doing so she is saying that she KNOWS others dont stand with her on this and that they have a RIGHT to their own opinions. Not everyone will agree with Lisa and not everyine will agree with where you stand on this issue. And you know what THATS OK......it is the way of the world. That is where good debates come frm...and sometimes, just sometimes y'all will learn something from each other!!

J'nelle said...

Like Norm I have spent some time on the fence about this subject. I never discuss it because it seems to start fight. I like the way you presented it though. I don't think I have ever heard a pro-lifer present their side in such a way. You presented some ideas I had not thought about such as even a zygote being a stage of human life instead of some blob waiting to be a human life. I also found your description of anti-aborts as apposed to pro-lifers interesting. It really makes sense. I think your blog may have just been what it took to get me off the fence. As always great blog and great food for thought.

Anonymous said...

You people cannot be serious. You are not even discussing the issue here. You are simply standing up for cmom's right to speak her mind. Most of you have mamby pambied about talking about the right to opinions but only cmom, norm and I have picked a side. Unfortunately I am the only one who sides with women and their needs. Cmom and Norm seem to think that not only should a fetus have rights but those rights should circumvent the mothers rights. Without the mother the fetus would not exist so how can it have rights greater than the mother. And cmom you are being ridiculous with your examples of women killing husbands and kids. It is just one of the scare tactics that pro-lifers love to use. Abortion is a need in every community in this country. In the world in fact and when all is said and done, your little opinion is just that. An opinion and it will not change the fact that abortion is legal and it is going to stay that way.

Niki said...

Really Anonymous? ??? I guess. .We all know you had to get your comment on here so everyone else can read it & respond to it...it's Not about you....It seems you like reading this Blog. ...& you Love to complain... Lisa you know You & everyone else can speak their opinion. ..we just know some just do it for attention. ....Any ideas who that might be....LOL. ..Love your Blog Lisa keep them coming ...its my only Daily reading!

Cmom said...

First of all Anonymous, maybe not everyone feels as comfortable about speaking out on such a hot topic as you do. Second what scare tactics are you referring to? That wouldn't be anything like saying that if abortion was made illegal that women would be "forced" to go to back alley abortionists conjuring visions of women bleeding to death in alleys would it? There was no scare tactic involved in what I said. All I was doing was pointing out the difference between wanting something and actually needing something. Making a want legal to the point of making a human life expendable makes as much sense as killing your teenager if they talk back!

Thiry said...

My opinion...readers of this blog do not reply to crazy anon...I'm telling you, their intent is to stir trouble...by being outrageous,and it takes away from the blog, debate the blog, but don't call names...I am convinced this person is doing this on purpose, if it was said things are black anon would say things are white...its really quite silly and sad...and they once again forgot not to reply twice....

Anonymous said...

Thiry, I am not the anonymous that seems to plague cmom's blogs. My name is Carol. I went by anonymous on this blog today because I didn't want to give my name but since I am being confused with someone else, I thought I better set the record straight. I am pro-choice and I thought that is what cmom wanted here was some feedback on her rant. I like cmom's blogs for the most part but not this one. I do not agree with or understand her abortion stance. I would think as a woman she would be supporting the needs of her gender rather than try to see them ignored. And I am disappointed that no one else has any other opinion than stand behind cmom's right to an opinion. I do understand after reading some of her other blogs this week why those that read her blog would be watching her back, but come on surely someone besides two people has an opinion here. I would hate to think I am the only one who supports a woman's right to choose!

Anonymously Carol

Cmom said...

Anonymously Carol I support the rights of all women...not just the convenient ones!

Thiry said...

I support a womens right to choose, I do not want anybody telling me I cannot do what I want with my body, but where is the morality in all this? Do we believe in God or do we not? I think its sad that a women would get pregnant either by accident ( oops I didn't use birth control, I was drunk, he made me whatever the reason) Women must be responsible for this as they are the ones who will pay the price, generally not the man. Or god forbid by being raped, ( which is as mentioned earlier a very small % of pregnancies, and then because as mentioned earlier, they don't want the baby for some reason, young girls fear what their parents will say and do and don't want to be saddled with a baby so early in life and older women just may not want another baby, so we just go to the doctor and have the baby sucked out, it tears the baby up and then throw it out, sounds kind of gross and heartless. I don't know the answer to this, but I do lean more towards Cmom's opinion, when we make mistakes in life there are consequences. And it might be such that you got pregnant somehow and now you need to be a decent responsible person and carry the baby to term and either keep it or give it up for adoption. There was only 1 comment I could not believe: A fetus is nothing more than a want to be human until it is born : Yikes...you were lucky to have been born and that your parents didn't think that about you... my apologies to Carol Anon.for thinking you were the other Anon.

Anonymous said...

Thiry your first couple of lines said "I am pro-choice" and the whole rest of your comment screamed "pro-life." You sound like another fence rider to me. After stating that a woman should have the right to do with her body as she chooses then you immediately start blaming women for the need for abortions. Come on, life happens but when it does, does that mean another mouth to feed has to be brought into this world? Legally a human being has no rights until they are born. How do people give these fetuses person hood when legally they are still part of the woman's body until she delivers them? Women do have and should have the right to decide what happens to their own body. If they have a tumor they have it removed. If they have bad tonsils or bad appendix they have it removed. All of the above are unwanted things that a woman has a right to get rid of. A fetus is no different. So Thiry, you need to get off your fence post and decide do you support women or fetuses? I still hold out hope for you don't prove me wrong.

Anonymously Carol

Cmom said...

I agree that a woman's body is her own until and unless she is pregnant. Then her body is not completely her own. Comparing an unborn child to tonsils, an appendix or a tumor is pretty darn callous if you ask me. And yes...life does happen but it is not an excuse to destroy another human life. The way you speak (and I am not putting words in your mouth just making an observation)sounds like you see abortion almost as birth control. Also...again you are stating something that is illogical. You say the unborn do not have person hood. Neither do newborns. Person hood does not come until a baby can in fact recognize him/herself. If you are stating that lack of person hood makes it okay to abort, then perhaps you also think since newborns have no person hood you can kill them too if they become inconvenient?! You really need to have your facts in order before you speak out on this subject. Your logic is extremely hole ridden and you are again attacking people who don't agree with you. You are all about "choice" so let people "choose" how they feel without you telling them they are wrong or unintelligent for the way they feel!

Thiry said...

I guess what I was trying to say was if I was in that position that I would hope that I not think it ok to kill the baby...see I do believe it is a baby from conception, not a blob or a tumor, those are odd comparisons, kind of made my skin crawl reading it. I said I was on the fence true, because I don't feel it's completely right to tell a woman what she can or cannot do. And I said I don't know the answer. What I do know is, that it is sad that people can so casually kill and unborn human and think its ok. Do you support hunting? Or is it animal cruelty? Do dog fights bother you? Or is that all in good fun? Do you support not cutting down the trees? Because they are precious. Save the baby seals?, they are too cute to kill.. There are so many things I hear people supporting and then say, " Ahh kill the human its not real anyway ".

Anonymous said...

So Thiry you talk in circles. You say you believe it is a baby from conception and yet you say you agree with a woman's right to choose. So it is okay to kill your baby? You are nuts. It is not however even a baby at conception. It is potential life not life. In fact it is potential life right up until birth and then and only then does it become a human life. Abortion is not killing a human life, it is disposing of potential life and there is a big difference.
Cmom in effect abortion is birth control. It is extreme birth control, but still birth control. And no person hood is not a consideration for killing someone but it a consideration for abortion. Along with being a potential person the fetus has potential person hood, but the fetus is not capable of surviving on it's own so it is not a complete human being. Also nice play on words cmom about choice and I guess if people "choose" to be stupid and misinformed I will have to let them. Luckily the law is my side not theirs.
Thiry I am against animal cruelty, the exploitation of our forests and I think everyone who has ever hunted should get to be hunted themselves and know what it feels like. The difference between the things I choose to protect and the "thing" you claim to protect is, mine are actually born and alive. Thiry either get some education or run on over to the pro-life side. I am sure they can use some more misinformed fence standers like you.

Carol

Cmom said...

Carol, you are a master at word manipulation. What Thiry basically said was that she believes it is a baby from conception on and if a woman chooses to abort...there is really nothing she can do about it as the law is on the side of abortion. There was nothing uneducated at all about what she said and you are fully aware of that. And this potential human life stuff is bull. When they are doing abortions at 23 weeks gestation and at the same time babies are being born at 23 weeks and living outside the mother and not only surviving but thriving...that should tell you something. If you have ever been pregnant and felt a baby move, kick, hiccup then you know that you are not just carrying potential life, but REAL human life. The problem with so many pro-choice people is that they are all about choice as long as that choice means acceptance of abortion. But the minute someone has a differing opinion or "choice" then suddenly that person is uneducated, ignorant and uninformed. So you are all about "choice" as long as it is for women and not even all women....just the ones that agree with abortion. The unborn women have no voice and the born women with differing opinions should just shut the hell up and move on. Correct? Your arguments are very transparent and full of pro-choice talking points that you are spitting out but have no evidence to back up. I have heard it all before and I am not impressed. Please though knock off insulting those who do not agree with you. There is no place for that here!

Thiry said...

Carol
I like how you were not wanting to use your real name when you started out on this blog, ashamed perhaps...and isn't it funny how this idiot knew you hated hunters, I suppose you don't eat chicken, fish, pork, beef or any of the like and your as green as they come right...I find you somewhat entertaining, yes I am sitting here laughing..OK Carol here is what you really want people to say " you are right it is only a blob and we as women can kill it if we choose " Feel better now... as stated earlier everyone else is an idiot because they don't agree with you...your not very good at debating, you just get nasty and call people uneducated and stupid... when people really don't have anything intelligent to say or are out of ideas they resort to name calling and trying to degrade the other person...now I need to go hunting Bambi is out there waiting on me..

J'nelle said...

Dang, I thought this one was put to rest yesterday. Twenty posts? I can't help it, I have to add to this. Carol or whatever your name is, you are the best pro-choice speaker I have ever witnessed, for pro-lifers that is. Your words are confusing and you do tend to try to twist what others say to make your own points. Cmom made some really good points on babies surviving outside the mom at 23 weeks so how are they not considered human life. Someone on life support is still a human life even if they are having help to survive and we don't let them die unless there is no hope. A developing baby is nothing but hope in most cases so how do we not protect it just as we do the born person on life support? You seem to have a God complex where you like to pick and choose who has a choice. If ever there was a question in my mind about abortion, I think it is gone now. Carol you have been a great help in showing me that the "choice" in pro-choice simply means choice for only a few women and not all. Thiry you don't sound uninformed at all. I'm right there with you.

J'nelle

Also Anonymous said...

I cannot stop myself from commenting on this post, as I am pro-choice but do not think Anonymously Carol is doing a particularly good job of representing my pro-choice views.

First of all, I don't think anyone who is pro-life is unintelligent because of those views, although I think that some of the more fanatical groups have taken control of the nation's debate on abortion (not this one specifically!) and radicalized it to the point that the popular debate is no longer useful. To combat this, I like to limit the type of abortions being talked about so everyone is on the same page. I don't think support for abortion in cases of rape or medical necessity is particularly controversial, so it isn't what I'd like to discuss. In short, I support abortions in those cases in all instances. So, when I'm debating abortions, I mean abortions which happen before 20 weeks, considering only 1.4% of abortions happen after 21 weeks. This framing of the abortion debate is not meant to marginalize those events, but they are not the cases I think are relevant when I speak about being pro-choice.

Cmom, I have a difficult time commenting on your first several paragraphs. I do not support people being harassed outside of medical clinics as they are trying to get care. Although you may not have specifically talked to anyone, that presence can be enough to make a woman feel that her right to privacy was violated or make her feel ashamed enough to avoid the clinic altogether. I don't have any evidence of relationships or marriages destroyed solely as a result of an abortion, or any evidence for the implication you seem to be making that abortion has caused a majority of the problems that make society the way it is today.

In regard to your framing the problems of abortion as "want" vs "need" and adoption, I'm not sure that is the best way to frame things. There are significant and painful mental consequences to both getting an abortion or having the child. An abortion has risks, mentally and physically, and a woman needs to be informed of these things before getting one. I think she should be able to rely on the emotional and mental support of those she loves after she has an abortion, not shame and ostracism. Meanwhile, the adoption argument feels as though it is trivializing the fact that pregnancy and the birth process is one of the most dangerous and difficult experiences for a woman in modern times.

(MY COMMENT IS TOO LONG SO I SPLIT IT IN HALF, SORRY)

Also Anonymous said...

I will never be able to support a law which forces a woman to carry a fetus for nine months and then go through the birth process and recovery, either from pushing it out naturally or by Caesarian section, which is major abdominal surgery. I cannot ask her to experience the emotions created in that process, emotions which are supposed to cause bonding between the mother and child, and which make it even more difficult to watch that baby go to another family, despite that woman's convictions that adoption is a better choice for everyone involved.

I can't accept that women who get abortions are doing so just because it's the "easiest, quickest" way out. At that point, all of the options are difficult choices to make, each with separate consequences. I think women who are facing a pregnancy which is unexpected and unwanted should be presented with the scientific facts of the fetus' progress (a fetus which is a few weeks old may indeed have a heartbeat, which some might take to mean it is alive, but at that point the “heartbeat” is really just a bundle of 4-5 cells which are beating and will eventually develop into a heart, which I don't think is a sign of a life. Others may disagree and choose differently) and the positive and negative consequences of abortion, adoption, and keeping the child before making the choice they think best fits with their values and life.

To address one final point, I think that women's need for abortions is something which can be minimized with comprehensive sex education. Comprehensive sex education is not about teaching high school kids how to make decisions about sex as a teenager, it is about giving them information and training so they can be informed, effective decision makers as adults. It also means that if they do choose to have sex, they have access to contraceptives such as condoms, the birth control pill, IUDs, etc. If a woman does end up needing an abortion, this education should be provided at that time in order to make sure she doesn't come through those doors again.

I am grateful that my mother was in a position to raise a child when I was conceived, but I do not think that all women are always in a situation where a baby will be raised in a loving environment, or even one where a child will always have enough food to avoid hunger, starvation, abuse, or any of the other tragedies women who cannot get an abortion might face. To add to that, if abortion was illegal, there are women who would die or suffer additional consequences because they absolutely cannot stand the idea of giving birth.

To sum up my rather long response to your blog (I didn't mean for it to be quite this long when I started) I think it's hard to understand the difficulties many pregnant women face, and I think that individual women are most able to make the best decision about their specific set of circumstances, and should be trusted to do so.

Also Anonymous said...

Blogger at the FIRST HALF of my post, so this was at the beginning. Sorry my argument is rather disjointed now.

I cannot stop myself from commenting on this post, as I am pro-choice but do not think Anonymously Carol is doing a particularly good job of representing my pro-choice views.

First of all, I don't think anyone who is pro-life is unintelligent because of those views, although I think that some of the more fanatical groups have taken control of the nation's debate on abortion (not this one specifically!) and radicalized it to the point that the popular debate is no longer useful. To combat this, I like to limit the type of abortions being talked about so everyone is on the same page. I don't think support for abortion in cases of rape or medical necessity is particularly controversial, so it isn't what I'd like to discuss. In short, I support abortions in those cases in all instances. So, when I'm debating abortions, I mean abortions which happen before 20 weeks, considering only 1.4% of abortions happen after 21 weeks. This framing of the abortion debate is not meant to marginalize those events, but they are not the cases I think are relevant when I speak about being pro-choice.

Cmom, I have a difficult time commenting on your first several paragraphs. I do not support people being harassed outside of medical clinics as they are trying to get care. Although you may not have specifically talked to anyone, that presence can be enough to make a woman feel that her right to privacy was violated or make her feel ashamed enough to avoid the clinic altogether. I don't have any evidence of relationships or marriages destroyed solely as a result of an abortion, or any evidence for the implication you seem to be making that abortion has caused a majority of the problems that make society the way it is today.

In regard to your framing the problems of abortion as "want" vs "need" and adoption, I'm not sure that is the best way to frame things. There are significant and painful mental consequences to both getting an abortion or having the child. An abortion has risks, mentally and physically, and a woman needs to be informed of these things before getting one. I think she should be able to rely on the emotional and mental support of those she loves after she has an abortion, not shame and ostracism. Meanwhile, the adoption argument feels as though it is trivializing the fact that pregnancy and the birth process is one of the most dangerous and difficult experiences for a woman in modern times.

I will never be able to support a law which forces a woman to carry a fetus for nine months and then go through the birth process and recovery, either from pushing it out naturally or by Caesarian section, which is major abdominal surgery. I cannot ask her to experience the emotions created in that process, emotions which are supposed to cause bonding between the mother and child, and which make it even more difficult to watch that baby go to another family, despite that woman's convictions that adoption is a better choice for everyone involved.

Cmom said...

Also Anonymous, While I disagree with much of what you say, I am very impressed with your eloquence and direct yet respectful response. Thank you.

And here is my response to you. No one is ever forced to get pregnant (rape aside). By the time a girl reaches puberty now, thanks to tv, movies, etc. they know what causes pregnancy. You talk as if a woman magically is forced into pregnancy and then forced into carrying a child. It simply is not true. If a woman knows how to get pregnant....she also knows how not to. If she chooses to not use birth control then she is playing Russian Roulette with motherhood. If she is grown and responsible enough for sex...then she should be grown and responsible enough to make sure she is protecting herself. Instead though...women use abortion as a fall back. They do nothing to prevent the creation of life and then they willing destroy that life through abortion.

I do know that bc fails but the percentage of times it does is minute compared to the number of abortions done daily here in the US. Women don't take responsibility for their actions....because the law says they don't have to...not before they have sex or after.

I do agree with you that education is a huge factor in all of this and that the education should start at home. Parents need to talk to their kids and not assume they are going to learn the facts of life on the street. They need to send their kids out into the world protected and ready for whatever circumstances their kids might have to face. The schools need to be a follow up to what is taught at home and these kids need to know that there are consequences to actions such as sex, so if they are going to be having sex, they need to be fully prepared for those consequences.

As far as your scientific facts on the fetus...whether you admit it or not, that little bundle of cells with a beating heart is human life. It is how we all start and grow. It is a stage of human life just like being a toddler or a teenager. And it feels. It has been proven that the fetus/baby feels pain in utero. At one time there was even talk of giving anesthetic to the unborn child so it wouldn't feel the torture of being dissected or torn apart during the abortion. Apparently their pain was not deemed worth the effort.

So you can call it a zygote, a fetus or anything else you like...but bottom line is...it is a human life.

And the adoption thing. How selfish of a world are we? We make a "mistake" and magically through no fault of our own end up pregnant. But we will abort the human life we created because it would be too painful for us to give nine months of our life so that this creation of ours can also have a life with someone else. Really? That almost makes me ashamed to be a woman if I have no more respect for myself and no more ability to take responsibility for my actions than that. Nine months is nothing compared to death!

Tell me...do you know what happens to an unborn life when it is aborted? Do you know the indignities and disrespect not to mention the pain that life goes through. In some cases the brain is sucked out...in others it is dissected or torn apart and in all cases it ends up as medical waste. No dignity, no respect...just trash. Pro-choice is all about choice...well let me ask you...who do you know that would ever choose to die like that? Some choice huh?
Yes Also Anonymous...you should be very grateful your mother chose life!

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